#386 Growing and Leading a business in times of crisis - an interview with Olexandr Buratynskiy Founder and CEO of tTravel
Growing and Leading a business in times of crisis - an interview with Olexandr Buratynskiy Founder and CEO of tTravel.
Listen to the podcast and see the transcript below.
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More on this topic in this week's podcast: Apple Podcasts / Spotify
See below for the podcast transcript.
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Niels Brabandt is an expert in sustainable leadership with more than 20 years of experience in practice and science.
Niels Brabandt: Professional Training, Speaking, Coaching, Consulting, Mentoring, Project & Interim Management. Event host, MC, moderator.
Podcast Transcript
Niels Brabandt
Many of us will think that working in challenging times is familiar to us. Many of us will think that we all saw a crisis. Many of us think that we all face challenges in business, and we all need and and we all need to handle them, and we all know how to handle them.
But, actually, do we? I have very special guest today. Hello and welcome the founder and CEO of ttravel, Alexander Borotinsky.
Olexandr Buratynskiy
Hey. Hey. I'm happy to be here, and thanks for having me.
Niels Brabandt
Thank you very much for taking the time. You are now in Kiev in the Ukraine. Is that correct?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
That's correct. I'm in Kiev, you know, in the middle, of Ukraine and then the capital of Ukraine.
Niels Brabandt
Yeah. So we all know that the situation is is very, very challenging. Probably many of us can't even imagine how it is at the moment, what and what you have to face there. And be be sure that any democratic person and country is on your side here. And while all that happens, you found it I mean, let's face it. Travel is an industry where where you're not the first person showing up. You, from scratch, started a travel block and developed that into a thriving app with more than 35,000 users.
Many people try to get into this situation with investors, privileged situation, and many of them fail. You didn't have any of that and you succeeded. How did you do that?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
Yeah. I I wouldn't name it a success still because I want, like, 1,000,000 and I want to to build, you know, this, Decacorn or something like a global company, but, like, we build it from the situation. At first, we have COVID, and I was, you know, running to, all the people and showing some, prototype, of our application because I was dreaming of, you know, global company. And, then, you know, half a year before full scale invasion, we had a mobile app release and, you know, Ukrainian market was very pleased by our solution.
Niels Brabandt
Mhmm.
Olexandr Buratynskiy
But then everything fell down because we okay. We we didn't have travelers. We had, you know, people who just forcefully, moved from their territories, from their home. So, yeah, it it's a hard story, but I'm we are still striving and surviving just because we are stubborn enough. And I guess, I guess it's a part of for Ukrainian nationality or or I don't know how to name it, but we we are stubborn.
Niels Brabandt
Okay. Well well well done so. So when we talk about crisis, usually people say, oh, there is some obstacle. There's a new regulation. Money is a bit short or consumer spend more or less. How when we talk about crisis what are your insights bootstrapping a startup during a time of war?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
So, yeah, we're still bootstrapping because, like, you even Ukrainian investor, they invest from, 10 k MRR, and it's it's, huge numbers for any, travel app, I would say, for on the beginning. Yeah. We have a lot of users and power users that, use our app, and not so many people who pay for it. You know?
And we Mhmm. We visited or, like, the whole model, and mix it up, you know, make made it from just traditional marketplace to, like, some indie game vibe to beat the retention, you know, problem with the mobile apps. And we did it, actually, in this October. We made it in with, like, indie game vibe style, application that is, used by, global citizens. So they use the solo travelers. And recently, we were on web assignment at our audience previously was, like, 70% Ukrainians and 30% like all around the world. Mhmm. People. And now we have, 49% Ukrainians and to to 20, like, from people from Portugal, others from Poland, from UK, from Romania.
So peep when people are seeing our app, they cannot forget it. They it's like a meditation for them. So it's a new thing in in our, I would say, time, where where everyone have a clip memory, you know, forgetting everything that was, like a second ago and the TikTokers, you know, all this generation. But we managed to build something that is meditative enough and, ecosystem in itself. So and it was it was made under blackouts. As you said already, we have challenging, situation and, inside the shelters, with with a big dream in our heads.
Niels Brabandt
Wow. Wow. That is that is truly inspiring. When we talk about getting a team together because you can't do all that by yourself, how do you especially in that situation, how do you grow and inspire a team when you don't have external funding then?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
So we actually, if you know this framework, like friends, family, and fools, that any people use, I rename it and, I tend to name it, as a friends, family, and believers. You know? The most of my team, like, every every single person actually is a believer. Believes in huge vision in that we, like, the the the victory will come, the peace will come, and in other countries, there is a huge demand for, adventurous time, for a vacation time that will fulfill their their own, you know, strive for, for adventure, I would say. So, it's like, I first, I start with vision. You know? How Mhmm.
We want to build the number one travel app in the world that will be pre installed in each and every device and each and every smartphone. And people tend to believe me. So they just join, you know, and we have we have small but very efficient team. And, if we talk about Ukrainians even, you know, like only 2, like, 3 of us, of my team is in Ukraine. Others are in Europe. We have, you know, team that is pretty much in most of the, countries of Europe, European Union. So people just want to share, like, very big, vision, you know, very big with us.
And joining, you know, they they they strive for building so much more than themselves and help people to not to get in a situation, where there is an unsafe and improper condition for them. So what I mean by that, by that, it's like, we know that right now we are not living our best lives, you know, because of the, because of the Russia, because of the invasion, but we want, this vision to be available for people who have access to it, who who will install to travel, and we'll see human verified, itineraries and just, you know, use it for their own good, live their best lives.
Niels Brabandt
Excellent. When we now look at I mean, the year 2025 is coming in. You are a leader in a company that you build from scratch. And you know how important agile decision making is. And probably we all heard about uncertain times, but how do you what are your prediction on how how do you want to do agile decision making? And how do you want to deliver effective leadership when the world is uncertain at at the level where you work? How do you want to how do you want to have the vision and give a certain prediction in such uncertain times?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
Actually, a good question thinking, Nils. It's like, my own experience before, like, I was founding company was an agile coach and a scrum master. So I was, working in startups and enterprises, all around the world. For example, I lived in Poland and worked for swings Swiss banks. Lives in London for a bit. And, like, most of my experience, rooted in, agile, and agile coaching. Mhmm. So my approach is do not plan, for more than sprint and a half, forward.
So it's it's my own thing, but in this time, we have a road map with events that we want to achieve. And I, and it's literally events, not the not just pure numbers. So for example, some companies plan, okay, we need to achieve, like, some, MRR, LTV, CEC, like, some, like, pure metrics. But we want to achieve, like, what will to travel be or needs to be not in a month, but, you know, like maybe it will be in 3 months, because, we will set the, you know, roadmap of events and plan sprint, in sprint and a half ahead of what of actual tasks to bring us closer to to what we aimed, closer to our goals. So it's like a short term planning, which, like, I've heard that some people say it's it's a disease, you know, short term planning. But, if we have, first of all, vision, then, mission, properly described, then strategy, how we do it, you know, in which way we can do it, and then events that we want to achieve. So we we we move forward, with, like, very huge confidence that we can achieve this.
So, yeah, that that's my I I was I would say that's my main approach from from the beginning of, starting my own business.
Niels Brabandt
Brilliant. So when you now have this vision and you do what you just said, isn't there always the risk that you say, okay. You you're going to boost up in the company and then you push a bit further towards the vision and then you push a bit further, push a bit further. Isn't that the rate I mean, how how do you boost up a startup without burning your own team?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
It's curious. The thing that actually, most of those event, we can, learn from. You know? Like, I'm I'm a big fan of retrospectives and,
Niels Brabandt
like,
Olexandr Buratynskiy
thematic retrospective. And, in our country right now is a popular framework, that we are spreading. It's after action review. You know, it's in in military and it's, in business. We basically take, like, traditional retrospective and maybe make it themed, you know, like the thematical for, like, okay, we plan such events to, achieve some goals. We didn't achieve it, but we achieve it something else. Is it something valuable for us?
It does it, you know, fulfill our needs or it's somehow, you know, a building, like, looks like a building step for our, for our vision or our mission? So we can like, if you imagine, like, a car going from point a to point b, it's not a straight line. It's a kind of serpentine, you know, like on a Canary Islands, I wish you you would see those serpentine. See, like, you're going by the road and it's like naturally made. It's not Mhmm. Forward. But it, like, obligatory thing for us to stop and reflect on what was bad and what was actually good.
What brings other possibilities for us, for our business.
Niels Brabandt
Excellent. So if now entrepreneurs are listening, you probably think of, okay, if I now go into a very competitive market and I try to put my idea somewhere out there, just to wrap this interview up, what are your top three tips? If someone's now sitting there and thinking, I think it's too competitive, I think it's too difficult, I think the circumstances are too challenging, what are your top three tips to make people say, let's go and just do it?
Olexandr Buratynskiy
Oh, actually, the first like, you you can you can, decrease it to one thing, actually, but I I will name 3 for sure. Like, one thing, it's to understand that ideas, is in the air and they worth nothing without execution. So when we are full of ideas and, they are inspiring us, the next thing that comes after this is execution. If you're not executing each day in your idea by small steps, smaller as possible, you will make it impossible, I would say. You you will never be strong enough. You will never appreciate those steps and then you will burn in our burn up your teams and you burn up yourself. So the first thing is actually execution.
You can execute better, faster. You can execute in more creative way than your competitors. And, you know, money, they they are they are there. You know, there are a lot of markets that can be captured. You can capture 1%. You can start from 2%. It doesn't matter.
The execution and people who wants to execute on your idea, it's your asset, it's your main asset and how we come to, to the second point as a people, you need people who believe in, your ideas and empathetic enough to believe in you. When you're a leader, it's like you're showing the way and those who come to help you, that's your people. Right? You're if you highlight your dream and people kind of treat it as a disease. Right? They they, they get it as their own dream. So you need those people always.
So for for example, in the beginning of full scale invasion, I had, yeah, projects, you know, as a giant coach. I was I was working part time and, on my on tea travel, and I had to, like, full time job. But the first thing that we, did after full scale, we declined all the meetings instead except one, on which we asked, how are you?
Where are you? Are you safe? You know, can you get to the safe place? What help do you need to get to the safe place? And this is a style of leadership that I have in my own startup. I say, I I basically, I'm creating an environment where people can grow, when people can achieve. And I say, how are you?
You know, what do you need from me? Like, how can I make you more efficient than you are now?
So it's it's a second thing. And third thing I I need to think about because it's like, first two, are essential. And the third thing is, like, don't give up on your dreams. I say it's it's can be cheesy phrase, but, you know, I have heard so many noes on on, those, like, 3 years or 3 travel and 12 years are my carrier. I heard no. No. No. Like, it's it's tremendous amount of noes.
You will hear from everyone around. But, like, our people in our audience that love our application and love what I do. For example, like a coach or like a counselor or consultant, like, show me that my work matters. You know, you will hear many no's but some people will say yes. And, you just need to understand that you're not for everybody, but, some niche will be for sure yours and you will you you will you will, not only survive but also succeed in it.
Niels Brabandt
These are the perfect final words. So everybody who's listening right now, go to the App Store. Go to ttravel. It's a perfect app that is not going to not only go to enrich your travel, but also when you are a travel blogger, travel group organizer, or just an ordinary traveler. It's it's definitely for you, I can tell you. At the end of this podcast, there's only one thing, left for me to say. Actually, 2 things left for me to say.
Usually, it's 1, but this time, 2 things. So first, Alexander, be sure that the whole democratic world stands with you on the matter, and we all hope that Ukraine will come back to peace as soon as it's it's somehow possible. Everyone, please go to the App Store and get t travel. It's a brilliant app. And at the end of this podcast, there's only one thing then left for me to say. Alexander Borontinski Borontinski, thank you very much for your time.
Olexandr Buratynskiy
Thank you, Niels. Thank you for having me. Appreciate the talk, and, yeah, we we will win, that's for sure.
Niels Brabandt
Excellent.