#404 The creative Way to Leadership and the Art of Direction - an interview with Vincent Wanga
How to become a leader in the creative field?
Vincent Wanga has an impressive track record, demonstrating how to deliver success.
In this interview with Niels Brabandt, he shares his insights.
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More on this topic in this week's podcast: Apple Podcasts / Spotify
For the podcast transcript, read below.
Is excellent leadership important to you?
Let's have a chat: NB@NB-Networks.com
Contact: Niels Brabandt on LinkedIn
Website: www.NB-Networks.biz
Niels Brabandt is an expert in sustainable leadership with more than 20 years of experience in practice and science.
Niels Brabandt: Professional Training, Speaking, Coaching, Consulting, Mentoring, Project & Interim Management. Event host, MC, moderator.
Podcast Transcript
Niels Brabandt
Creativity. Many of you will not say, Paul, the oh, no.
I'm a business person. I'm not really creative, or or or am I? Because sometimes you have to find creative solutions. The question is, how do you deal with creativity, and how do you actually become a creative leader? We we have one of the worldwide most known experts here. Hello and welcome, Vincent Wonga.
Vincent Wanga
Hello. It's really it's really, an honor to be on the show. I really look forward to the conversation, and then thank you for having me.
Niels Brabandt
Thank Thank you very much for taking the time, and we go straight into it. When when people now talk about creativity and and let's face it. It's an industry where the competition is insane. Many people try to get into this industry. What in your opinion are actually the essential skills that, Paul, the art directors or designers need to actually, go just beyond the talent and and become creative leaders?
Vincent Wanga
Yeah. I think that's a great question. I think first and foremost, there is a shift between the time when you are getting, you know, acclimated to being a senior designer or an individual contributor. And then I think this applies to any industry to actually becoming a leader. And I think that mindset shift has to do with this transfer from hard skills, you know, of the the actual software and programs and and skills you've acquired throughout your career into this mindset of soft skills, that really help prepare you for management of human beings, which is a totally different endeavor. I mean, these are anything from, you know, the intuition, of of managing people to empathy, to being a visionary because you are now the the chief visionary of a team of people, and you have to set that vision for them for them to execute. Understanding how to manage different nuanced personalities, and it really creates a barrier for a lot of people to enter management because they think those hard skills that they really excel that will transfer one to one to leadership.
And it's a totally different mindset, that you have to prepare for. So I think that's the first thing I really want people to understand. I think the other thing is you have to be a really compelling storyteller, not just to your team to help translate, you know, the objectives to them to execute, but also you're now dealing with clients directly. You know, clients or stakeholders if you're working for a corporation. And if you can't sell the vision to them, not only selling the vision, but also including the hard metrics and objectives that they need to actually produce results, you will fail at that job. And I think too many people, unfortunately, are not prepared for that transition because there's no formal training or school for that. You know, it's something you you have to learn, on the job.
Maybe you have somebody who prepares you or is a mentor for you. But it's it's really created a barrier for a lot of people to transition to the mindset that it requires to be a manager or a leader in any industry, let alone a creative one. And that's part of the reason, I wrote the book to help people, really get on that level and shift their mindset to be ready for leadership.
Niels Brabandt
Do you think anyone can do it, Lalit? Or do do you think that some people are just not not suitable for a management or leadership role?
Vincent Wanga
I think some people are not suitable for management and leadership role. I'll also say something controversial. A lot of the people in management leadership are not suitable for management and leadership.
Niels Brabandt
I would fully agree, by the way, and science is behind you with that. So
Vincent Wanga
Exactly. And and, you know, people think it's a meritocracy where, I'm the best salesperson, so I deserve to lead all the sales. And and that's not necessarily true. I fundamentally believe in my experience as well is that leadership is a calling. First and foremost, you know, you really have to have a selfless mindset because you serve the team and not the other way around. And I think the most effective leaders and, you know, if you read books like Good to Great by Jim Collins, you know, they actually quantified that for us. The best leaders really have an empathetic approach to leadership and find ways to serve and defend their teams and advocate for their teams, going forward.
So my point here is that it should be a calling. There should be certain skills and traits that could qualify you as a leader early in your career that you can notice and hopefully your your leadership will notice that would make you better suited to be a leader. But I also think, you know, really importantly, if you don't have those traits and if leadership is not for you, that's okay as well. You know, being an individual contributor is still very vital to any organization, and you should know whether you have the traits to be a leader or not, whether you have the calling to be a leader or not, whether you want to, before you make that decision. Because, again, there are multiple paths to success, and leadership is just one and should never be pressured to enter leadership just because you think that's the only way you can extend your career.
Niels Brabandt
Brilliant point here. You mentioned mentorship. Do you think it's important to have a mentor? And, of course, the next question with that is, if you think it's important, how do I find the right mentor for me?
Vincent Wanga
Absolutely. It is not just important. It's essential. And the reason I mentioned that was my first point where a lot of the skills, the soft skills that you need to be an effective leader are gatekept. They're they're not things in the job description. They're not things that, you know, you just go and get your PhD in. So oftentimes, the most effective leaders, and certainly in in my case, there was strong mentors either early in your career when you're ready to make that transition who really exemplified those things for you and then started teaching you, you know, here's how those things kind of operate at this level.
I think in absence of that, you can be proactive about mentorship. You can approach a leader in your organization that you admire or you think is being effective and just say, like, hey, can I shadow you and figure out how you do your job? Or what are ways that I could be more helpful to you? I I think another aspect that really, tell people is that you can also be proactive in helping them solve problems. You know, everybody brings problems to the leader. Your literal job is to solve the hardest problems. By the time he gets to your desk, you know, that means somebody else hasn't figured it out.
But what if you came to and approach your leadership with solutions as well? You know, not just problems, but here's some ideas I have developed that could help solve this problem. And that is a much more proactive way to one, encourage mentorship, but also show those leadership traits and techniques like proactivity that will help you become a more proactive leader in the future. And in absence of mentorship, you know, really do your research. We have the Internet at our fingertips on our phone. You know, more information that probably ever existed in human history is in our pocket. So there are books out there.
There are resources. There are people you can learn from. People you can reach out to on LinkedIn.
You know, be persistent. Be in their inbox and and really take a proactive step in how you can encourage mentorship, and find mentors who, identify traits that you might wanna emulate in your own leadership journey.
Niels Brabandt
Nice one. And you wrote a book about this. Could you tell us more about your book, please?
Vincent Wanga
I did. And I wanna say first and foremost, I wrote this book in a completely selfless pursuit. I took a very scenic route to leadership. I talk about it in my book, and I decided I wanted to write the book that I wish existed when I started my career. You know, if I had the cheat codes to just skip to the front of the line, like, what would that look like? And as I started writing this book and it started, you know, kind of about my background, my history, and what I've achieved, I realized, like, it really needs to be about how I got here so that I can help people who might be in this period of their life where they're deciding, hey, do I wanna go into leadership? Or maybe I'm already a leader and I wanna be more effective in that pursuit regardless of your industry.
What are the essential things that are kind of hard earned and hard learned that can help me, you know, accelerate and elevate, my, my leadership credentials. And that's the book, that I essentially wrote is called the art of direction, personal perspectives on the path to leadership. And it's really about the unspoken nuance traits that you really need to be an effective leader. And it's geared towards creatives because that's my industry. But I really truly believe a lot of these traits are universal and can apply to any industry and any leader who's really looking to level up or a person who might be deciding, hey, do I wanna enter leadership and management or not? And I emphasize in the book, it's okay if you don't. There's a path for you. There's entrepreneurship.
There's individual contributors. There's specialist, roles for you that are vital and essential. And the first and most important question is not if you wanna become a leader, but why?
Niels Brabandt
Excellent. So when you now talk about becoming a leader, of course, many people probably have quite similar question, but many people will say, well, suddenly, I'm a leader. So how do I actually foster some sort of strong team culture that I now have to create? And, of course, what people also are interested in is, how do I how do I prevent from making the most typical mistakes, and what are these? Could you tell us something about how to foster this team culture and how to or which which mistake to avoid?
Vincent Wanga
Yeah. I I think starting with team culture, you know, the first thing is is that I mentioned you're the chief visionary. Right? Well, you're also there to inspire them. So the first and foremost, you should have the credentials where they respect what you do. That whether that's a design background or or you've you've you've helped, you know, close critical deals on on the sales team or in marketing, you have strategy that's innovative. If they don't respect you, on the actual hard skills level, it'll be hard for you to maintain that culture.
So those credentials need to be modified. I think the second thing is really being empathetic. And what I mean by that specifically is you have to listen to your team. But you also have to understand that in a leadership position, there's this duality. You represent your team and you're a shield for them, but you also represent, you know, the executives and the company and the objectives. And you're right in the middle as kind of a translator between these two different teams. But they need to see that you're advocating for them and protecting, you know, the vision of the objective that you're trying to reach.
But the leadership and the executives also need to know that you're translating the hardcore metrics and objectives that we need to manage the bottom line, and that's getting it to the team so that the work that you're actually producing produces results. And I think really listening to your team, advocating for them, but finding unique ways to inspire them. You know, I always love to take my team, in particular design team, out of the design realm. I might bring in a guest speaker who is an architect or, you know, a master craftsman or something that's tangentially related to the task that you guys have to do, but in a totally different industry who can teach us some of their techniques that can get us out of our day to day grind and then bring us back with inspiration in the way that they do their craft that we can apply to what we need to do. So find ways outside of your industry to get other voices to also help inspire your team because no matter how, great your team culture is, sometimes they can tune you out. You know, they have to listen to you every single day, all the time. Find other advocates to really that message to your team so that everyone can continue to be inspired and do the work that they need to do.
But it starts with their trust and advocacy that you employ both with the leadership, but also with their needs and being attuned to those things.
Niels Brabandt
Brilliant. When now someone's listening, maybe we have some people listening here and say, hey.
I I am a junior creative. They think, well, especially when we're in The US, I'm I'm competing in an industry which is incredibly competitive. And some people come along with the Harvard, Princeton, Yale degree, which I probably do not have. How do I stand out in such an insanely competitive industry when I'm now listening to this and I'm actually a junior creative just at the start of my career?
Vincent Wanga
I I love that question because I'm one of those people. You know? I I think I'm extremely talented in in what I do and and and obviously the results and things I've done in my career prove that. But I I not only didn't go to Harvard or or Princeton or or Pratt or any of these major institutions. I didn't graduate, from college. And the reason I mentioned that with with pride is that you cannot let your circumstance be an excuse for not executing at the highest level. You can you can speak to anybody regardless of if they're a Rhodes scholar or, you know, they they grew up in in, you know, or socioeconomic standpoints.
Everybody has some sort of limitation on on why they can't achieve something. If you look at some of the most successful people in the world, they are riddled with flaws and and failure, but they didn't use that as an excuse. And instead, I tried to shift that mindset into using it as an advantage. You know, I've overcome so much hardship in my life and I've used it as rocket fuel to achieve the things that I do. I talk about it in my book. So I don't appreciate, when anybody makes an excuse because of your gender or your race or your social economic background or because you're an immigrant.
You can't do something. I literally I
Niels Brabandt
think you have an immigrant background by yourself, don't you?
Vincent Wanga
Exactly. And yet, I'm on this show talking to you about my success. So I think the first thing is to get any sort of mindset that you can achieve something out of your system because that is a self limiting, philosophy. I think the second thing is being proactive and understanding what you wanna achieve in your life. And that starts with setting that vision. What do you want to do? Do you wanna be an agency owner?
Do you wanna be VP of sales? Do you wanna be, you know, head marketing for a tech company? Do you wanna be an entrepreneur? Set that vision, and hold that steadfast so that you have a North Star that you really try to pursue. The second thing is be proactive. If you're trying to break into an ultra competitive industry like tech, which I I recently came from, we wanna see your proactivity. I have a friend who would post, you know, critical commentary of a particular large cap, tech company every single day about how they could improve their product.
It started with four or five people seeing cascading to the point where eventually he got an interview and they're like, okay, you keep badgering us that you can improve it, prove it. And they were able to. So find ways that you can be proactive, and really approach your career in a way that you're solving problems even if you don't have that opportunity yet. You know, query these companies. Show them. Show your work. You know, take your passion projects and and approach them as if they're real and put them in your portfolio.
The worst thing you can do is try to show up at an interview and not have any real world things to show when there's so many other hobbies and passions that you have that you can approach in a real world context. Use that to show them how you think, which is more important sometimes early in your career than what you do and use that to backdoor your way into a career. I talk in my book about how I did did so, so there's no excuse. Don't use excuses, be proactive, and really understand what you want to break into, what you want your future to be. Use that as your North Star and just be relentless. That is the most important thing. And once your foot is in the door, don't let your foot off the gas, and that's halfway to success right there.
Niels Brabandt
Brilliant. And when I look at your history here, and especially with with the success you have right now and you're still thriving in this industry, let's face it. AI has reshaped the creative industry. And, also, I saw in your in in in in your history that you have been part of a 1,000,000,000, tech unicorns growth. So from these two points of view, could you could you elaborate on how do you think is AI going to impact the the the creative industry? And, of course, what are the learnings from this $1,000,000,000 growth you, you ought to were part of?
Vincent Wanga
Yeah. First of all, AI is gonna, you know, reshape every industry. So, particularly creatives is is is an interesting dichotomy because it's one of the few industries we thought were immune to this because of the uniqueness of human generated ingenuity and and creativity. We thought it might take decades for AI to catch up. It took months. And I think the first warning here is that AI grows and its capabilities exponentially. And that's different than any technology that's come before.
So, a year ago, I couldn't do video. Now we can do cinematic Hollywood level video with just text prompts. So everyone should be cognizant of that, that no industry is safe from how it can reshape it. But I think, as I mentioned in my previous comment, your mindset plays a huge role here. You can look at it as AI as a threat to take your job, or you can be one of those people who leverages AI to actually help enhance your job and your viability and value within an industry. You know, one of my favorite quotes is that, you know, AI isn't gonna take your job, but somebody using AI will. So be one of those persons who embraces AI, understands it, and uses it to really help elevate your role.
I think AI is going to affect people at the lower levels and the mid level. But those who scale upward, will really find ways that they can use AI to enhance their efficiency and do the thing that if you're an entrepreneur is the most valuable. How do you multiply yourself? AI can help you in that capacity. So shift your mindset and use this as a tool instead of as an adversary, and I think you'll be much better positioned. I think the other thing is that we all have problems in our life. Right? So if you were to write down all of the problems that you have in your working workflow every single day and then go find AI solutions to solve those things.
You now get to spend what limited time you have on the things you actually get to enjoy and are good at while AI takes care of everything else. So really think of ways that you can leverage AI to help you work more efficiently, to help be a multiplier, and never use it as a crutch to do your job. Because once you open that Pandora's box, it will find a way. And if not, your leadership who's thinking about the bottom line will find ways to leverage it to replace you instead of you leveraging it to level yourself up to a place where you plus AI is greater than what you or AI could do separately.
So that's really important. I think from the tech kind of unicorn perspective, you know, being part of this billion dollar, valuation was such a rewarding experience in my life because when I joined the company, we were less than a hundred people. And to see that growth in a four year period means you went through about a hundred different levels of evolution of a company. Yeah. So the reason I mentioned
Niels Brabandt
that Record speed.
Vincent Wanga
Record speed. I mean, we're at the time, we were one of the fastest growing companies in all of North America. And and the reason I mentioned why this is important is adaptability is survivability. So make sure that not only are you skilling upward, but you're skilling outward. And that you have multiple skills that can allow you to shift as a company shifts or more importantly in the broader context, an industry shifts. Because five years ago, we weren't talking about AI. It's here.
Ten years ago, we weren't talking about, you know, the metaverse. It's here. You know, we weren't talking about quantum computing or, you know, a lot of the emerging technology that's happening, and we don't know what's on the horizon. So if you have broader skills in marketing, in design, in sales, in leadership, etcetera, you find yourself in a much better position to not only survive industry shifts we can't predict, but if you find yourself in a position like me where you're in a rapid growth company where you have to evolve your role five times, every couple years, that adaptability and those variants of skills that you offer make you extremely valuable, and allows you to ascend and be a part of that transformational story, as I was privileged to have.
Niels Brabandt
Perfect. I think these are almost the perfect final words. One more question, of course, I have. When now people say, hey. I I just want to learn more about you or your book, The Art of Direction. How can people find out more about you, your book, and, of course, when they want to use you as a consultant or as a keynote speaker, how can they get in touch with you?
Vincent Wanga
Absolutely. I appreciate that. As I mentioned, you know, I wrote a book, about my career and about, ways that you can be a more effective leader called The Art of Direction, Personal Perspectives on the Path to Creative Leadership. It is available on my website, VincentWanga.com. It's also available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books a Million, all the major, book retailers and for order at your bookstore worldwide. So definitely pick up a copy if you're interested in those topics. I'll emphasize, although this book was written from a creative's perspective and for creative leadership, I think these principles again apply to any industry and anybody who's on, a potential leadership journey.
In in in addition to that, I'm on LinkedIn. Feel free to connect with me. As I mentioned about mentorship, be persistent and proactive. If I don't respond right away, send me another message. People in our position are are very busy as I'm sure you understand, and we wanna see how much you really want something. We can never want it more than you. So be persistent. Be proactive.
Reach out to me. Those are the primary ways you can get a hold of me. And again, on vincentlonger.com, I there's a lot of the, thought leadership that I share, ways that you can connect with me if you'd like to book me for a speech, or connect with me for any of the brand consulting that I do, across the world.
Niels Brabandt
Perfect. These are the brilliant and most perfect final words for this podcast. Creativity and the leadership journey. We now heard how you can actually do it. I can tell you from what I saw. I do a lot of interviews on this podcast, and hardly has anyone impressed me more than what I've not only heard today, but what I wrote about, read about you and what I saw, what you actually did. So I can only highly recommend, read this book and also get in touch with him.
It is probably the best decision you can make in a long time. So at the end of this podcast, there's only one thing left for me to say. Vincent, thank you very much for your time.
Vincent Wanga
Thank you, Niles. I really appreciate it.